Games,  Prequel Trilogy

Kotaku: “Put Yaddle In Star Wars Games, You Cowards”

yaddle.jpg

From Kotaku:

Star Wars games like Galaxy of Heroes and LEGO Star Wars include hundreds of characters. Some are popular, like Han Solo or Darth Vader. But many of these games also include lesser-known or obscure characters, like Bib Fortuna. Yet after decades of Star Wars games, everybody keeps omitting a character. A Jedi Master who sat on the Jedi Council, who was incredibly wise and patient. I’m talking of course about Yaddle. Why is she being overlooked and how can we fix this?

Yaddle is a Jedi who is of the same species as Yoda. What species is that? Good question, Star Wars lore has never really given Yoda or Yaddle’s species a specific name or history.  […]

Like Yoda, Yaddle was a powerful Jedi who was also incredibly smart. And yes, like Yoda she also spoke a bit weirdly, mixing her words around. But Yaddle wasn’t just a female version of Yoda. In her Legends history she was a brave and fierce warrior Jedi, who could handle getting tortured without giving up any information. She also spent 100 years in isolation, fighting off giant creatures with a wooden stick and surviving on scraps of food. Of course almost all of Yaddle’s original history is now non-canon, but she herself is still very much canon.

Yaddle made her first appearance in Star Wars Episode I The Phantom Menace. She is seen as a sitting member of the Jedi Council. She was there when a young Anakin was brought in front of the council for testing. And here’s something to think about: When she was on the council, they correctly told Qui-Gon, the Jedi who found Anakin, that he shouldn’t train the young boy.

But, in Attack of The Clones, Yaddle is no longer on the council. In fact, she is never seen in the films again. What happened when Yaddle left? The Jedi trained Anakin, helped him, allowed him to get close to Palpatine and eventually got destroyed by the Sith master and his new apprentice, the former Anakin, now known as Darth Vader. Whoops!

Yaddle leaves for a vacation and the entire Jedi Council collectively screws everything up. Good job, Yoda.

Where was Yaddle during the rest of the prequel trilogy? Originally in Legends she died after sacrificing herself to stop a bio-weapon, saving an entire city in the process. However, in the new canon she now just decided to leave the Jedi Council and take a break from Jedi affairs. Maybe she got tired of Yoda and Mace Windu? Yaddle has recently appeared in the new Star Wars comics, but I won’t spoil that for anyone who, like me, cares about that stuff.

So, now you know what I know: Yaddle is a bad-ass Jedi warrior, incredibly smart, appeared in the first film on the Jedi Council and in the old canon saved an entire city by sacrificing herself. And yet, she has never appeared in a video game. Not even in a small cameo. […]

EA keeps canceling Star Wars games, so they might need a pitch for a new one. Here’s my pitch: Yaddle: A Star Wars Adventure. You play as Yaddle and fight things and other stuff happens. Look I’m not a game designer, but I think it could work.

The year is 2019 and I believe we are ready for a Yaddle renaissance. Your move Disney.”

 

0 Comments

  • archdukeofnaboo

    @ Cryogenic
    Thanks for those links! I will respond in full to your previous message (on the Celebration poster thread) shortly. Just been busy in real life.

    Something for you to chew on before then, and this goes out to all prequel fans reading this:
    1) Would you like to see Anakin Skywalker return in Episode IX?
    2) Do you think Abrams will bring him back?

    They were discussing rumours of Hayden Christensen reprising his role on ‘Rule of 2’ yesterday, it was a quite a good conversation. So I’d like to open up the discussion to everyone here.

    If I ever start a blog of my own in the coming months, this topic will be have to be a post.

      • archdukeofnaboo

        Think about it Joey: Han is dead, the emperor of the ST (Snoke) is dead, Luke is dead/a Force Ghost and Leia will be difficult to incorporate without the late great Carrie Fisher. If Abrams wants IX to feel really Star Wars, bringing back Anakin is one of the few options he has remaining.

        There is an extremely compelling argument as to why Anakin would return as a Force Ghost in Episode IX. And that is a conversation with his grandson, Ben, who, whether you like it or not, is now the main character of the ST.

        Also bear in mind that the pro-PT part of the internet is now a lot louder than it was when Abrams wrote his script for VII in 2013.

    • Cryogenic

      @ Arch Duke:

      No worries. Some of my posts can be traded in for a full-volume set of the Oxford English Dictionary. You would end up getting back less words. And you’d still have enough left over to trade the remaining in for a ten-year supply of alphabet soup — and then you could trade those in for a Death Star/Millennium Falcon play set, plus five Star Wars books of your choosing.

      Okay, so…

      1) I’m not fussed about seeing Anakin back. Obi-Wan didn’t show up in TLJ, despite Luke having more of a connection with him than Yoda. Not that that means Anakin appearing couldn’t be rationalised and featured in the last “Skywalker” episode. In a sense, he needs to be there; but in other ways, he doesn’t. And, of course, I am perhaps falsely implying he needs to show up as a Force ghost, when there are other options. But I’m really easy on this one either way.

      2) a) Abrams could certainly bring him back, but to repeat your question: Will he? I genuinely don’t know. Despite Obi-Wan’s absence in TLJ, we do hear both Alec and Ewan speaking in the “chest” scene in TFA — and, in Ewan’s case, his lines were specially recorded for the film (that would, of course, be quite a trick in Sir Alec’s case). In a way, given the fact that Ewan recorded lines for TFA, incorporating Hayden in some manner would bring things full circle. So I think it’s a possibility. Even just as a marketing hook. And we know Abrams excels in that area.

      b) And, you know, thinking about this some more: Why wouldn’t Obi-Wan, at the very least, be seen or heard again? It’s really strange for Rey to hear him at the end of the chest scene, but then he totally disappears from the rest of the sequel trilogy. Pretty incoherent. A dangling plot thread. A tease that goes nowhere. But hey, maybe Rian Johnson railroaded the trilogy too severely, and now, well… all bets are off.

      c) The Obi-Wan “spin off” film was recently cancelled. This maybe boosts the incentive to feature Ewan and Hayden in the last of the main saga films. That said, if they’re going to go that route, maybe they should include Natalie in some capacity, too. And then there’s Carrie to worry about (who is going to be there via some digital editing tricks). And, presumably, Mark will feature a bit, too. Oh, and if all those people get to pop up and say “Hi”, then maybe Harrison should be brought back, too. Both sets of the “Big Three”. A real wrap/swan song for the whole series.

      But to bring this back to saga basics:

      The way I see it, Anakin is the central character of all episodes, and the main character of none. He’s the elusive fulcrum of the saga. In this sense, whether he’s explicitly included in Episode IX or not, he’ll still be there. It’s his story being taken to completion.

      • joey pieper

        they had their chance to reunite the big three and they blew it harrison only came back so they could kill off han something he wanted to do since episode 6 with lucas out of the way kasdan and abrams destroyed han’s character along with luke and leia’s while people kiss kasdan’s a** for writng the holy sacred esb while either forgetting or deliberately ignoring what Geroge contributed to empire (such as the i am your father twist)it’s disgusting

      • Cryogenic

        @ Joey:

        I was actually a bit indifferent to the “Big Three” being reunited. I mean, sure, it would probably have been pretty great, but I accepted they wanted to do something different on that front. Plus, in some ways, the ST should never have been beholden to them reuniting, as the emphasis was going to be on the newcomers. Three trilogies, three generations. However, one can argue that the final result — “the proof is in the pudding” — leaves something to be desired.

        Killing Han in TFA was, as you suggest, a means of them having their cake and eating it. Delayed desires on the part of Harrison Ford and Lawrence Kasdan. Plus a fanbase that screeched for years in agreement that Han should have snuffed at the end of the OT — in order, they argued, to spice up ROTJ and counter-balance its kiddie tone and end the saga in a manner that felt believable. So here was their “adult” fantasy being played out on the screen to the tune of $250 billion (production budget) — which Ford received a very handsome slice of:

        No Ewoks, Han dying, a classic red-on-blue saber duel, an emo-chad villain that the film actually told you was already a villain (contra Anakin in AOTC and the first half of ROTS), a cantina sequence, X-Wings vs. TIE Fighters (!!), THE MILLENNIUM FALCON (!!!!), “Rebels” vs. “The Empire”, the callous and improbable destruction of the New Republic (no “trade disputes” in this trilogy, folks), a desert planet because “Star Wars is a western” and “westerns are much cooler than boring space politics”, the young protagonist bonding with a cute droid (see how *good* she is — like Luke!), the insta-bonding of a stormtrooper and a hotshot pilot (contra Anakin and Obi-Wan’s understated meeting in TPM and subsequently tense relationship in AOTC), another Death Star threat (no thinking required), none of the characters having any great gaping flaws or struggles to speak of… and Oscar Isaac.

        There’s an interview somewhere up on YouTube where Abrams, in the big media-circuit PR campaign for TFA, is speaking about Kasdan and he says how it was incredible to be working alongside the guy that wrote Han’s best lines. Somehow forgetting the fact that Kasdan had no input on the original film (the one that one several Academy Awards and was nominated for “Best Picture” and “Best Writing”), and that one of Han’s most memorable lines in TESB, as he’s about to be frozen, was worked out by Harrison Ford and Irvin Kershner during filming.

        And, of course, as you said, the bulk of the writing credit in TESB and the OT as a whole (to say nothing of the prequels) belongs to Lucas — since he wrote many of the treatments and screenplays largely by himself, played the lead role in story meetings, approved and steered all the design elements down to the smallest detail, literally wrote, produced, directed, and edited the first film (albeit with assistance and a good deal of input from others), oversaw the second in many of the same capacities, strongly supervised the directing of the third and again was involved in all aspects, and is clearly and conspicuously the master architect of the entire saga (I-VI).

      • Cryogenic

        ^^ Couple of typos up there. Very distracted by insanely annoying machine sounds nearby. Oh, well. I think you get the point. 🙂

      • archdukeofnaboo

        @Cryogenic

        I see you’re on the fence on the matter of Anakin returning! And not your normal polemical self. There’s only one way of responding: “A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one”.

        I would definitely like to see him return. If it’s for a meaningless voiceover, then you can forget it, but as an important Force Ghost in scene(s) with Ben, I think it would be really apt. Alternatively he could appear in scenes alongside Luke’s Force Ghost.

        As to whether Abrams will bring him back, I think the answer to that lies in what the director is aiming to achieve in Episode IX. Is he trying to rap up a trilogy he began, or is he completing a trilogy of trilogies?

        If it’s the former, then a strong argument can be made for not including Anakin. The prequels influence, thus far, have been almost non-existent, when they were many opportunities to do so, even with a 53 time gap. If the ST want to be its own thing, removed from the story of the Chosen One, then by all means, don’t include him – or any other PT alumni for that matter. Prequelists who haven’t enjoyed the ST will likely take heart in a decision like this.

        With the latter, Abrams has an unenviable task in the writing department. The PT was essentially scorned at in TFA, so trying to make up with it in IX may well come across as forced and/or extremely awkward if it’s not handled with care. With no Sith-Jedi conflict, the ‘New Republic’ & its politics existing only as vague abstraction, there’s no better way of integrating the PT than Anakin’s Force Ghost.

        I think Obi-Wan is better left for a post-RotS film of his own. And as for Padmé, yours truly has his fingers crossed that she will one day feature in a live-action film/series of the Clone Wars. But too be honest, I would actually take any film featuring a reunion of Ewan, Hayden and Natalie. Do you know if any of them are still friends or in contact?

        I do hope Episode IX isn’t the last of the Skywalker saga.

      • Cryogenic

        @ Arch Duke:

        I can be my usual polemical self if you prefer!

        I hear what you’re saying, but it sounds like you’re hoping they throw some kind of sop to the audience — as if that piece of Anakin-based virtue signalling will help smooth over the anti-prequel snubs of the marketing campaign for the sequels, ameliorate the anti-prequel bias of the sequels themselves, and cover up the sundry other deficiencies of their conservative and calculated approach.

        Personally, I don’t think you can put some magic Anakin oil in the lamp and have it give a nice glow at this point. I’m just not opposed to him appearing briefly in the last episode for the “full circle” logic of his inclusion. But that’s different to wishing for him to be included. I can see the argument for him being there, but there’s no gas in my tank causing my engine to spark up and roar *for* his inclusion.

        In a word (or two): I’m indifferent.

        Lots of things they already did to “bring out the feels” in the existing sequel installments didn’t, in my case, bring them out. To parse out a few:

        – The Millennium Falcon. Whatever.
        – “Chewie, we’re home.” And he looks like OT Han. Just older. Subversive!
        – Big super weapon destroys planet(s). OMG, this is like, so deep, you guys.
        – The Force Theme/Binary Sunset playing when Rey grabs the lightsaber. Yawn!
        – Force Ghost Yoda. In puppet form. Now an arsonist! A swing and a miss.
        – BIG WALKER BATTLE ON A SNOW/SALT PLANET. Oh, the epic feels!!!

        Sequel Trilogy, you drunk.

        Sequel Trilogy, go home.

        Okay, so I’m being a little facetious there — but only a little.

        It’s already so heavily patterned on the OT, and Lucas’ awesomely intriguing revelation, that he intended to delve much more into midi-chlorians and the microbiotic realm of the Force in the ST, was completely junked by Disney, which means…

        It’s a little hard for me to care too much about the final episode at all. I am now more of your “curious onlooker”. If they include Anakin, fine. If they exclude him, like they’ve excluded a million other prequel elements, also fine. They’ve already shown their colours.

      • archdukeofnaboo

        @Cryogenic

        I’m not looking for any sop. I’m simply making the case for including Anakin in what may possibly be the final Skywalker film. I also presented the circumstances where he shouldn’t appear.

        The marketing of TFA is irrelevant here. That was 2014-15, a couple of years ago, and most of us, even those who’ve enjoyed VII and VIII – I’ve read about them – are behind the notion that the PT was treated despicably. It is difficult to argue against it. As the head of Lucasfilm, Kathleen Kennedy is culpable for signing off on this. It is clear in mind that she has little affection for Star Wars, least of all the neglected prequels. It is just a business for her, and I think someone else should be steering the studio.

        I can see that those two-three years upset you, and that’s understandable. You’ve been with the online prequel community since 2005, and have spent so much of your time defending the films against the onslaught of a horrendous bashing cult even before Lucas sold his company. To see the new Disney Lucasfilm then sanction snubbing and cheap shots at half the Star Wars library – a trilogy close to your heart – must surely have been painful.

        Here’s where we may have a firm difference. I don’t believe it is right and just for a second to wish ill – of any form – on the 9th saga film. Believe me, Episode VIII is the only Star Wars movie I can ever recall coming out of so horribly disappointed. To see Luke Skywalker so wasted, and do little more than stand a few metres away from his nephew at the end, before magically disappearing, crushed me. I haven’t even bothered to watch it since. By all accounts I shouldn’t be looking forward to the final sequel. But I am – well, to a degree, at least I am.

        Whether IX turns out to be great, average or another disaster will never write off the hurt that was inflicted on our beloved trilogy after the acquisition. I won’t forget it, and I’m certain many other fervent PT fans won’t either; it is only this year, too many years after the sale of Lucasfilm, that we are beginning to see proper prequel content return. A tremendous final sequel film will not undo the awful mess that was TLJ, and it won’t justify the unoriginal, nostalgia-fest makeup of TFA either. Just look at some of the people who loved RotS and how little it did to cover up the big problems they perceived in AotC and TPM – this phenomena may repeat.

        I would ask you not to damn Episode IX because of previous wrongdoings, and have some faith. I have no interest in following in the footsteps of the prequel bashing culture and neither should you. We need to turn the other cheek – yes, I’m borrowing from the New testament, but so too does SW, so I’m in good company – and be better than they ever were. By all means, let us stand up firmly against each and every slight against the PT, but there is no need for us to morph into the official anti-Sequel community.

        As I’ve said before, I really enjoy your contributions to this site, and I’m not looking for you to revise your opinion of the last 2 sequels either. Just be willing to entertain and discuss the possibilities for the potentially last Skywalker film – that’s all I ask. We all want Adam Driver to shine in IX.

        I leave you with this nugget:

        “Always in motion the future is”
        – Yoda

      • Cryogenic

        @ Arch Duke:

        Sorry. Missed your post till now. I stopped checking a few days ago and you must have posted right after.

        You’re clearly more excited for Episode IX then me. And you also seem a little offended that I said it appeared you were hoping for a sop.

        But as for my attitude toward the sequels, and specifically, IX:

        I’ve certainly spent considerable time docking Disney, Abrams, Kennedy, Lucasfilm, and the sequels. Guilty as charged.

        And I think I am amply justified in doing so. Sadly, you have reduced my resistance toward the sequels to their extremely poor, insulting, belittling, and invidious marketing campaign for TFA, and while that fuels a not-inconsiderable part of my disdain, and is reason enough to despise them and everything they stand for, it isn’t the only aspect.

        What happened to me and other dissenters on TheForce.net message board system (and is continuing to happen to dissenters) was (and is) flagrantly unjust, crass, idiotic, and reprehensible. I have barely scratched the surface of the villainy enacted against loyal prequel fans and Disney critics both. And there, frankly, isn’t space to get into it all here.

        But based on what happened, and what I know lies behind it, on various levels, not to mention the IMDb boards being completely pulled (and at very short notice), and then the owner of the “Star Wars Prequel Appreciation Society” shutting comments off, all within a roughly one-year period, I am compelled to speak out. If those other channels of communication were still open, perhaps I’d be more laid back. But this is literally the only discussion space I still have. Don’t talk to me about Reddit or places like that. They’re fine; but they’ve never been for me. I’m talking about places I’ve loosely made my home and convened with other like-minded souls on. Yes, even IMDb provided this, in its own twisted way.

        Dissent against Disney, written dissent, in visible fan spaces, has been practically choked out of existence (no puns intended). And, to paraphrase Qui-Gon, I don’t think that entirely came about by accident. In the case of TFN, it certainly didn’t, but was very deliberate and calculated. It was open season on the prequels for fifteen years, with almost no pushback, but the moment TFA was released? Suddenly, criticism became illegal, and moves were taken to ensure fans would be deprived of firing back a TENTH as much as people bashed the prequels.

        This, to me, is also a free speech issue. While I might not have been overjoyed seeing the prequels assailed daily, at every turn, I did try and tolerate it, for the most part; even, at times, derive some perverse satisfaction from it. But something happened when Disney took control. Criticism of the prequels continued, but resistance toward the new copyright holders was slight, and when it started to grow, measures were taken to contain it.

        Personally, I don’t like the idea of corporations exerting a stranglehold over people’s minds, and I sure as hell won’t put up with being told my opinions are criminal, and that I am wrong by default, and owed no explanation or apology if I, or any of my prequel compatriots, are told we’re bigoted, selfish, hypocritical, racist, sexist, offensive, obnoxious, and plain unwanted; and then swiftly cast aside like garbage. Punished and banished, in effect, for having the “wrong” opinions.

        Disney have done this. All of it. It all goes back to them. And they deserve as much heat as I can reasonably throw at them. I will not be shamed out of that.

        All that said…

        I’ve barely spoken on the matter of Episode IX at all — anywhere. You are the one that began speaking about it here and directly asked for my thoughts.

        I understand that you are holding out hope and desirous of having others share your hope. And maybe I do. But in a very loose, languid, remote sort of way. As I articulated earlier, I am relatively indifferent about Anakin being included. On the other hand, I don’t believe I gave my thoughts on IX as a whole. There is, of course, very little to go on. How can I condemn it ahead of time?

        But the sequel trilogy foundation, as I said, and as you yourself seem to recognise, is faulty — founded more on commercial than artistic lines. I never felt that way about the prequels; even when I had some gripes and misgivings in earlier years. I always saw that there was a sincere effort to tell a poignant story, and to offer the world (whether the world was ready for it or not) an engaging, imaginative, even valiant work of cinema: a “peculiar dream” of baroque filmic fantasy; a curious work of opulent, elliptical elegance.

        I wouldn’t say the sequels are a total wash, but close to it. It’s still Star Wars (of some kind), it still has John Williams, still offers some decent acting talent, still is brought to life by some of the same designers, and still possesses just a few remaining drops of Lucasian magic. Therefore, it’s not a total waste, but one I have a lot of rueful and dolorous thoughts toward. I can’t help it. I am Generation Prequel. I am one of the people that got the message. As a result: The sequels look callous and crooked to me by definition.

        And I’m no fan of the people in charge. Not a fan of Kennedy, not a fan of Abrams. Certainly not now. If you don’t like a film’s producer or its director, least of all for past work in the same series, I contend that that doesn’t bode well for your anticipation of another installment by those same people. How could it?

        See, there’s more to Star Wars than it merely being “Star Wars”. There’s also the films, as they earlier existed, being a conduit for personal expression: a triumph of ingenuity and imagination, and the repository and symphony of deep and authentic feeling, hope, and yearning. Those properties aren’t easy to define. And they can’t be sold back to you by a faceless corporation bent on profit and healthy returns for shareholders.

        That’s the essential difference between “then” and “now”. The whole paradigm has shifted. Star Wars was an independent creation; and now it’s the Empire. That is no small thing. I find it deeply unfortunate that Lucas sold before completing the last trilogy himself. That would really have been something. Now there is little light left in it. But we’ll always have Coruscant.

      • archdukeofnaboo

        @Cryogenic

        Fair enough. We see things somewhat differently here, but I appreciate your words, nonetheless.

        I’m not a great believer in powerful, billion-dollar corporations either. In the world of entertainment, at least, they tend to be a double-edged sword: the power to fund numerous projects, but also the power to stifle creative independence. It’s a notion known too well – perhaps too well – in the video game industry, but one that only seldom escapes the musings of directors when it comes to film.

        Although the Lucasfilm that financed the PT was never strapped for crash, the fact that it could be fully owned and directed by the same person who was also knees-deep in leading its creative output was a remarkable thing. One might add that in the film industry, George Lucas was the embodiment of “skin in the game”.

        Your assertion that critiquing the inventor of Star Wars and one of the world’s largest media conglomerates – who later happened to purchase said franchise – are not the same thing, and instead two widely varying contexts, is particularly cogent. For all the differences that you, I or any other SW fan may have with George Lucas, the indisputable fact remains it was his creation, and that as the auteur, as the artist behind it, he was entitled to make whatever decisions or story additions he so desired.

        It simply isn’t the same with a faceless company controlling Star Wars today. The logic now follows that because one of the great acts of capitalism has transpired, Disney is now entitled, just as GL was, to do whatever it pleases – it owns, and what I personally consider a demeaning phrase, the “intellectual property”. And while it is true that they were kind enough to give Johnson massive creative control of Episode VIII, perhaps even too much in retrospect, we cannot ignore that they – the Disney board of directors – would have had an input in deciding what direction to ST was to go back in 2013-15.

        US entertainment insiders, who invariably swing left, should really know better than to be apologists for what are, no different to McDonalds, Microsoft or Nike, capitalist enterprises. A little dose of scepticism is certainly healthy, even if one is largely satisfied with Disney’s SW output. I find myself reminded of Cypher from ‘The Matrix’, who once opined:

        “You know, I know this steak doesn’t exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize?”
        [Takes a bit of steak]
        “Ignorance is bliss”.

        One could as easily substitute the steak for a trendy political cause, and the Matrix for the Sequel Trilogy.

        I’m no expert in the corporate architecture of Disney, but I do believe Lucasfilm still retain considerable independence with it comes to story and creativity. In that regard, we can say that Kennedy is the most influential factor behind what we see in our cinemas today. A highly successfully film producer in the past, but regrettably, the completely wrong person to be filling Lucas’ shoes. Hopefully, one day, we will see Filoni take over as head of the studio.

    • joey pieper

      @cyro
      star wars was always geared toward kids the documentary empire of dreams pointed that out and it seems those idiots who hate rotj(and ironically Disney)seem to miss the point that star wars is a fairy tale happily ever after one of many reasons why i consider the st non-canon(sorry for repeating this new to replying to the original comment the . above was a test)

      • Cryogenic

        @ Joey:

        No worries, Joe.

        I understand them choosing to kill off Han. They had sort of run out of storytelling road after ROTJ. Not that a deeper sense of imagination couldn’t have prevented Han from dying and maybe having a radically different arc. But perhaps there was an agenda to finish the character off in order to satisfy the wishes of Ford and Kasdan, and to lend a “shock” factor to TFA, the first sequel, which perhaps needed a jolting moment in its climax.

        And there is some precedence and poignancy in it: Han is basically the reluctant “Obi-Wan” of TFA; and Obi-Wan, and Qui-Gon before him, are both slayed by a Sith/Dark Side apprentice in the first films of the preceding trilogy in a similar “reactor/dangerous drop” environment, while the young friends/student looks on helplessly at a distance. History repeats — or at least rhymes.

        But in any case, yeah. Lucas said he resisted anything dark or sad at the end of ROTJ, in terms of a main character death (Anakin aside — already making for an intense and satisfying end). This story conference excerpt between Lucas and Kasdan in July 1981, from J.W. Rinzler’s “The Making Of Return Of The Jedi”, makes it clear that Lucas was averse to bumping off main characters, because he wanted that “fairy tale” ending.

        Key exchange:

        Lucas: By killing somebody, I think you alienate the audience.

        Kasdan: I’m saying that the movie has more emotional weight if someone you love is lost along the way; the journey has more impact.

        Lucas: I don’t like that and I don’t believe that.

        Kasdan: Well, that’s all right.

        Lucas: I have always hated that in movies, when you go along and one of the main characters gets killed. This is a fairytale. You want everybody to live happily ever after and nothing bad happens to anybody.

        And also this:

        Lucas: The whole point of the film, the whole emotion that I am trying to get at the end of this film, is for you to be real uplifted, emotionally and spiritually, and feel absolutely good about life. That is the greatest thing that we could possibly ever do.

        The rest of the extract can be read here:

        https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/8p9dxb/george_lucas_and_lawrence_kasdans_discussion/

      • Cryogenic

        And okay, this comments section is weird and unpredictable. It decides to display that particular link with all the text of the opening post. Didn’t realise WordPress and Reddit had a thing going on.

      • joey pieper

        i still don’t agree with what was done to han and luke was it necessary to undo their character development? turning them into complete failures the old eu may have had it’s flaws but at least the power trio stuck together despite the tragedies they endured(the deaths of chewie mara anakin and jacen who went to the dark side but at least did’t murder his father in cold blood)and luke successfully rebuild the jedi order did the peons at disney forget that episode 6 was called return of the jedi?

      • Cryogenic

        @ Joey:

        They broke the saga for the sake of a bit of drama and edge — as compensation for their own lack of imagination and the ineptitude of their “we can do it better with our own characters and storyline, thanks/no thanks, George” mentality.

        Any fool can break a thing. It takes a heck of a lot more work to assemble something and imbue it with smarts and meaning.

        A certain exchange in another “Star” franchise comes to mind. I shouldn’t, but…

        McCoy:
        Dear Lord. You think we’re intelligent enough to… suppose… what if this thing were used where a good story treatment already exists?

        Spock:
        It would destroy such a treatment in favour of its new matrix.

        McCoy:
        “Its new matrix”? Do you have any idea what you’re saying?

        Spock:
        I was not attempting to evaluate Disney’s commercial inclinations, Doctor. As a matter of cosmic history, it has always been easier to destroy than to create.

        McCoy:
        Not anymore; now we can do both at the same time. According to myth, the Earth was created in six days. Now, watch out. Here comes Disney. We’ll do it for you in six minutes.

        Spock:
        Really, Dr. McCoy. You must learn to govern your passions; they will be your undoing. Logic suggests…

        McCoy:
        Logic? My God, the man’s talking about logic; we’re talking about intellectual, artistic, and mythological armageddon.

  • joey pieper

    @cryo
    star wars was always geared toward kids the documentary empire of dreams pointed that out and it seems those idiots who hated rotj(and ironically Disney)seem to miss the point that star wars is a fairy tale happily ever after which is why i consider the st non-canon

  • joey pieper

    anyone confused at the above comments i’m sorry still new to this form of commenting please ignore the above comments i made or just delete them again my apologies

    • archdukeofnaboo

      Agreed. There seems to be a 2 consecutive reply limit, forcing users to make new, separate comments, which usually then turns the comment section into a disorganised mess. The lack of an edit feature for comments is badly missing too. I’m not sure if links can be embedded in words either.

      • Cryogenic

        @ Arch Duke:

        Not sure about the consecutive reply limit, but I sometimes press the wrong “reply” button, or I might have two people to respond to on the same branch, and I don’t necessarily want to create two additional branches by replying separately under each person’s comment. It gets visually messy.

        A further issue there is that three or four people may all be loosely talking to one another in rough “group” conversation. So if you reply to one person directly under their post, it sort of cuts out the others and collapses the conversation. Message boards are better for that communal feel.

        Shame there’s no edit feature. And shame there’s no way to really format text and make it look more presentable via bolding, underlining, use of bullet points, block quotes, etc.

        You can insert a link into a post, but only one link per post. Multiple links in the same post cause the post to be blocked pending moderator approval. I personally find that incredibly irritating.

        Embedded in words? You mean, highlight some words, and make those words into a link? No, I don’t think you can do that. Again, there are basically zero formatting options, and the comments section seems hostile to people giving links.

      • archdukeofnaboo

        @Cryogenic

        What I mean is that I replied to Joey Piper, and then you replied to my response to Joey Piper. I can’t however reply directly to your comment, so I respond to my own instead and use “@” + your username to ensure you know its targeted to you (and that I’m not talking to myself!). If you respond to this you’ll reply to the same message (beginning with “Agreed”).

        As someone coming from Reddit, with far superior formatting, this has been a challenge to me.

        I think we’ve got the hang of it on the “Star Wars prequels meant a lot” thread though.

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